Dairying

If the owner is giving the maps he is taking a fair chance looking for cash.
I was thinking about rental prices,even at 300 an acre with land at 10,000 an acre to buy it's not a good return by most business standards,better than leaving money in the bank alright,which is what drives the price of land rather than it's potential to make money farming
 
Ok I will have a go at explaining this.

The very top echelon of dairy farmers for the last number of years were making 1000 euro per cow of profit if you were to believe Teagasc et al. Stocked at a cow to the acre (which wouldn't be unreasonable on good ground), on say a 150 acre free draining well developed existing dairy farm, that is 150 cows so in theory, at that stocking rate and profit margin, then the farm has the potential to generate a profit of 150k in theory for someone who is looking to lease said farm before land rental charge is factored in. If the lease price is say 300 per acre plus the SFP of say 20k paid back to the owner then total land lease charge is 50k, all of which can be wrote off as a farm expense by whoever leases the land. So, on paper, that farm has the potential to deliver 100k of profit for whoever leases it. I did say on paper. If you were a young enthusiastic dairy farm manager with no farm of your own, would you go off and take a job managing someone else's farm at salary of 40k (as per most ads) or would you try to lease said farm and run your own show? I know what I would choose? If you are an existing dairy farmer with more than one son who wants to milk cows say then leasing a farm like this makes financial sense also and that might also avoid a row at home among sons. That is what is driving land rental charges to such levels on some of these farms. In other scenarios, naked land is making that kind of money if it allows a young person to apply to the National Reserve and establish entitlements etc.

The land rental market has never really made huge sense. But no one is ever forced to lease land. If farmers want to say a certain price for land then that is their own business. There is no point looking down on people paying huge prices for land and calling them fools for doing so. If they want to pay it, then let them. It is a landlord's dream of course, but they run the risk of getting a poor paying tenant etc.

Anyways, that is the best explanation I can put on it above. And by the way, I know the figures I have used above are paper figures and not really achievable for everyone but they are the figures used.
 
Ok I will have a go at explaining this.

The very top echelon of dairy farmers for the last number of years were making 1000 euro per cow of profit if you were to believe Teagasc et al. Stocked at a cow to the acre (which wouldn't be unreasonable on good ground), on say a 150 acre free draining well developed existing dairy farm, that is 150 cows so in theory, at that stocking rate and profit margin, then the farm has the potential to generate a profit of 150k in theory for someone who is looking to lease said farm before land rental charge is factored in. If the lease price is say 300 per acre plus the SFP of say 20k paid back to the owner then total land lease charge is 50k, all of which can be wrote off as a farm expense by whoever leases the land. So, on paper, that farm has the potential to deliver 100k of profit for whoever leases it. I did say on paper. If you were a young enthusiastic dairy farm manager with no farm of your own, would you go off and take a job managing someone else's farm at salary of 40k (as per most ads) or would you try to lease said farm and run your own show? I know what I would choose? If you are an existing dairy farmer with more than one son who wants to milk cows say then leasing a farm like this makes financial sense also and that might also avoid a row at home among sons. That is what is driving land rental charges to such levels on some of these farms. In other scenarios, naked land is making that kind of money if it allows a young person to apply to the National Reserve and establish entitlements etc.

The land rental market has never really made huge sense. But no one is ever forced to lease land. If farmers want to say a certain price for land then that is their own business. There is no point looking down on people paying huge prices for land and calling them fools for doing so. If they want to pay it, then let them. It is a landlord's dream of course, but they run the risk of getting a poor paying tenant etc.

Anyways, that is the best explanation I can put on it above. And by the way, I know the figures I have used above are paper figures and not really achievable for everyone but they are the figures used.
I think you're fairly on the money there. I have seen plenty of sets of accounts showing 750 to 1000 euro net profit per cow the last few years so its not pie in the sky at all.

The other side of this is all my childhood the thoughts of my generation earning a living from a modest farm was scoffed at. We can't be too negative now that it's a realistic proposition for lads
 
Have ye a link to these magical figures and what is and is not included in the 1000 per cow profit piece. A 5000 litre cow at an average of 40 cent is 2k, so €1000 per cow to cover every single cost or am I missing somthing?
 
Have ye a link to these magical figures and what is and is not included in the 1000 per cow profit piece. A 5000 litre cow at an average of 40 cent is 2k, so €1000 per cow to cover every single cost or am I missing somthing?
I haven't a link as its not from a report, I'm just commenting on seeing individual compiled accounts showing net profit figure and dividing by number of cows. SFP and everything else would be in there
 
Have ye a link to these magical figures and what is and is not included in the 1000 per cow profit piece. A 5000 litre cow at an average of 40 cent is 2k, so €1000 per cow to cover every single cost or am I missing somthing?
BPS and cull cow and calf sales as well.

There's a few lads I know leasing a lot of ground bounding them and they have no interest in it unless they get a minimum 15 year lease, preferably 20 years. By the time they have roads put in, fences, water, reseeding and fertility improved, they reckon they will only have that paid off after 10 years so they have a relatively short window to make a profit.

And they hand back the land in better condition than when they got it first day.
 
Is Bps included in profit figures?
That makes a big difference as it varies a lot.the 1000/cow profit figure is top performing farmers afaik but presumably the average should still be fairly high?
Particularly for bigger herds it sounds brilliant,250k would be some profit
 
With the profits mentioned why aren't dairy lads buying land, most land around here is been bought by other farming enterprises
 
I haven't a link as its not from a report, I'm just commenting on seeing individual compiled accounts showing net profit figure and dividing by number of cows. SFP and everything else would be in there
I presume those a figures are before and figure for labour for the owner and workers is factored in? Would those farms you refer to have a lot of traditionally owned land?
 
Down here as well very few dairy farmers actually buying land but they will lease any small bit even might be 20 miles from them .It too dear to buy if it goes over 12k/acre but they will pay up to E350 to lease average land
 
I presume those a figures are before and figure for labour for the owner and workers is factored in? Would those farms you refer to have a lot of traditionally owned land?
the much talked of 1000 (850 would be closer to the average) per cow profit doesn’t include family labour. Tax bill and loan repayments need to be paid out of this money too.

It cost roughly 1300 to keep a cow per year., and the variation in total output is a bigger factor than variation in costs
 
I should have clarified in my post above, that the magic 1k per cow figure was for farms with no debt and owned land. I think it is possible and certainly there are some guys achieving it. In any event, you can adjust your figures above for say 850 euro per cow and they still look healthy enough margins. Around me, any land that is bounding a dairy farmer is generally bought by a dairy farmer. I haven't seen them being outbid by other farm enterprises recently in any event.
 
I should have clarified in my post above, that the magic 1k per cow figure was for farms with no debt and owned land. I think it is possible and certainly there are some guys achieving it. In any event, you can adjust your figures above for say 850 euro per cow and they still look healthy enough margins. Around me, any land that is bounding a dairy farmer is generally bought by a dairy farmer. I haven't seen them being outbid by other farm enterprises recently in any event.
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Is there many of those farms about? If you cant make a shed load of money when you own your own land and money, its all a matter.

I start -€200 per acre each year for the above 😭
 
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Is there many of those farms about? If you cant make a shed load of money when you own your own land and money, its all a matter.

I start -€200 per acre each year for the above 😭
Half my land is owned, half is leased, I can see both sides of the coin as a result. But there is no one forcing you or I to rent or lease land if we don't want to! That is the only point I am making. And there are plenty lads that own there own land that make nothing from it either by the way!
 
The €1000/cow is a lovely round memorable figure. Headline figures are great, but often bear no relation to the real figures. Would anyone mentioning the €1000/cow figure care to show the workings to bring us to this figure?

If taking figures from the Teagasc profit monitor it’s important to remember that no figure for the farmers personal drawings is accounted for. A figure which Teagasc themselves put at 11cent/lt. Taxation & capital repayments have to be paid after the ‘net profit’ figure both very real costs on every farm.
 
We've hit a bit of a nerve here, I'm not getting into this in too much detail but ill clarify a couple of points in case I caused any confusion.

I said I have seen numerous sets of accounts with net profit equating to 750 to 1k per cow, this is not an average or a median or anything else, I've also see accounts with feck all but my point is it can and is being done the last few years. I dont think I've seen a dairy farm without some rented ground in recent years but all of these would have had a majority of owned ground.

Nothing to do with teagasc or anyone else, compiled accounts are all done the same way, hired labour is subtracted as is rent and interest etc. To leave the net figure.

Capital repayments and tax/drawings are not included above, that is the same for any business, you can't say the above isn't real accurate because the farmer hasn't paid himself or any of that stuff, its the same for any sole trader.
 
@scoffcruddle , I see Mick Gould had a cracker of a sale.stock were a credit to him.see a few animals have come to this side of the pond..met Mick at breeders club meeting one night.a real good cow man and a gentleman..
Probaly the " Hanoverhill " herd is the one herd that will always stick in my mind from growing up.if it was still going it would be very interesting place to be.probaly were the most successful breeders herd of that era
 
Out of the blocks this evening. Heifer calved lovely little black heifer.
Had to get a smasher of a fr heifer calf put down this morning. Born at 6am, up and drank cow. Tagged her and noticed she had no anus, was something strange about an inch from where it should be. Rang vet, but she started bawling trying to pass dung. Vet said knackery. Rang knackery who was passing by my lane at the time. Mo salah calf
 
Anybody here using a portable milking machine. Looking for something to plug in and bring to a pen to get a drop of beestings for a calf. Was going to use our old machine and mount it in the shed but was told it would cost more to get it up and running as a new one. I see clippers direct have one but looking 950e I think for it
 
Had to get a smasher of a fr heifer calf put down this morning. Born at 6am, up and drank cow. Tagged her and noticed she had no anus, was something strange about an inch from where it should be. Rang vet, but she started bawling trying to pass dung. Vet said knackery. Rang knackery who was passing by my lane at the time. Mo salah calf
Ah that's a balls. We get the odd one here from time to time too.
 
Amazing how quickly she went down hill couldn't stand when knackery lorry came in
We get lambs like that sometimes
Some can go a few days and you'll find them swollen in the field.
Others are obvious fairly soon.
 
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