Cattle dosing

Hi. Quick question, what do you hope will be the outcome of dosing?
Not being smart, just curious.
killing stomach worms in young stock up to 1 year old and after that hoping natural immunity will kick in and allow them to thrive , thats what we were always told down through the years anyway but i,m open to new thinking
 
i tend to only use pour on for lice treatment but i am glad to use closmectin this year , cow flattened me during the summer so no wrestling with them for a while yet
 
killing stomach worms in young stock up to 1 year old and after that hoping natural immunity will kick in and allow them to thrive , thats what we were always told down through the years anyway but i,m open to new thinking
OK, yea that's what we were all doing.
We have to start treating these wormers differently, they are going to lose their effectiveness in the near future.
Can I ask you to consider not dosing them?? I'm not telling you to not dose then, but at least consider and investigate the notion. đź‘Ť
 
OK, yea that's what we were all doing.
We have to start treating these wormers differently, they are going to lose their effectiveness in the near future.
Can I ask you to consider not dosing them?? I'm not telling you to not dose then, but at least consider and investigate the notion. đź‘Ť
What sort of magnification do you need on a scope to look at samples? I might be able to get my hands on a decent one with backlash on the handles. It would be interesting put your work to the test
 
OK, yea that's what we were all doing.
We have to start treating these wormers differently, they are going to lose their effectiveness in the near future.
Can I ask you to consider not dosing them?? I'm not telling you to not dose then, but at least consider and investigate the notion. đź‘Ť
i don,t know about abandoning dosing calves altogether but i would have about 3 different batches of calves every summer as we,re in winter milk so am i brave enough to leave a batch without dosing ?
its the ordinary white drench i use, dose and move every month , surely they have been around as long as i remember and i don,t see any signs of loss of effectiveness ,only use pour on when the weanling are housed a few weeks to cover them and also get the lice done at the same time
 
i don,t know about abandoning dosing calves altogether but i would have about 3 different batches of calves every summer as we,re in winter milk so am i brave enough to leave a batch without dosing ?
its the ordinary white drench i use, dose and move every month , surely they have been around as long as i remember and i don,t see any signs of loss of effectiveness ,only use pour on when the weanling are housed a few weeks to cover them and also get the lice done at the same time
Well I don't mean never to dose them, but if they don't need it going in to the shed then consider skipping this one. There will definitely be some animals within the group that do not need dosing if you wanted to try it as an experiment.
The fact that you always used it and it worked fine will, definitely, run out. Every dose you use now is a dose less that will work down the line as resistance will be created. I'm not having a pop at you BTW, it sounds like you have been ticking all the correct boxes, but we are all going to have to change.
Dose and move Was the right thing to do, now it's totally the wrong thing.....we need to put back in non-resistant parasites to the stock so they need to get exposure immediately after dosing. There is very little promotion to the arising issues, but are probably as serious to farmers as antibiotic resistance.
This might help explain it a bit better.....
 
What sort of magnification do you need on a scope to look at samples? I might be able to get my hands on a decent one with backlash on the handles. It would be interesting put your work to the test
You will need a 20x lens on a bloody good microscope. Eggs have to be floated out first using a saturated solution and placed on a McMaster slide. Not for the faint hearted.
 
Well I don't mean never to dose them, but if they don't need it going in to the shed then consider skipping this one. There will definitely be some animals within the group that do not need dosing if you wanted to try it as an experiment.
The fact that you always used it and it worked fine will, definitely, run out. Every dose you use now is a dose less that will work down the line as resistance will be created. I'm not having a pop at you BTW, it sounds like you have been ticking all the correct boxes, but we are all going to have to change.
Dose and move Was the right thing to do, now it's totally the wrong thing.....we need to put back in non-resistant parasites to the stock so they need to get exposure immediately after dosing. There is very little promotion to the arising issues, but are probably as serious to farmers as antibiotic resistance.
This might help explain it a bit better.....
if i put them in the house how will i spot the ones that need a dose before the damage is done? , if they,re not thriving its weight gain lost and damage done to the lungs . i,d say its hard to get money to conduct trials and experiments for this type of work as the pharma business definitely don,t want the less is more side of the argument to win out .
whats your opinion on vaccinating then brucey , surely the same argument could be said about letting herds build up natural immunity to IBR and lots of other diseases which multiply every year, cows will be like pin cushions soon
 
if i put them in the house how will i spot the ones that need a dose before the damage is done? , if they,re not thriving its weight gain lost and damage done to the lungs . i,d say its hard to get money to conduct trials and experiments for this type of work as the pharma business definitely don,t want the less is more side of the argument to win out .
whats your opinion on vaccinating then brucey , surely the same argument could be said about letting herds build up natural immunity to IBR and lots of other diseases which multiply every year, cows will be like pin cushions soon
I suppose it goes back to old fashioned stockmanship. Able to spot who is thriving or not, or if an animal is coughing or not.

Personally and to my financial cost, pneumonia vaccine is a waste of time and money.
 
I suppose it goes back to old fashioned stockmanship. Able to spot who is thriving or not, or if an animal is coughing or not.

Personally and to my financial cost, pneumonia vaccine is a waste of time and money.

I learned, to my financial cost, that you can pay well for letting dosing slide on calves at grass (lungworm). I wouldn't be half as bothered about older cattle though.

Which pneumonia vaccines are you referring to? All of them? We spend something just over a tenner a head on it. Put it this way - if it was a deduction on the factory docket, it'd fairly sting.
 
I suppose it goes back to old fashioned stockmanship. Able to spot who is thriving or not, or if an animal is coughing or not.

Personally and to my financial cost, pneumonia vaccine is a waste of time and money.
I find the complete opposite with the pneumonia vaccines, would have had a good bit of bother before we starting vaccinating for it. No issues since touch wood. It has surpassed my expectation. What sort of cattle are you vaccinating and what vaccine are you using?
 
I learned, to my financial cost, that you can pay well for letting dosing slide on calves at grass (lungworm). I wouldn't be half as bothered about older cattle though.

Which pneumonia vaccines are you referring to? All of them? We spend something just over a tenner a head on it. Put it this way - if it was a deduction on the factory docket, it'd fairly sting.
lungworm is the danger always, and once you see/hear the signs in young animals you have to move quickly. ideally if you can isolate the calves that are showing signs and dose while leaving the rest untreated. This can take balls of steel and I would be slow on encouraging it as if things go pear shaped, your looking at dead animals. I have another view, but Im not going to post it on a public forum

I will post about pneumonia vaccines later

 
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lungworm is the danger always, and once you see/hear the signs in young animals you have to move quickly. ideally if you can isolate the calves that are showing signs and dose while leaving the rest untreated. This can take balls of steel and I would be slow on encouraging it as if things go pear shaped, your looking at dead animals. I have another view, but Im not going to post it on a public forum

I will post about pneumonia vaccines later
I wouldn't have the nuts for it myself, or the time for that matter. I have mixed feelings about Cydectin LA but it is the job on lungworm. You might PM anything that's better kept off the air, or not if you're not inclined.

I found that Bovipast at calf/weanling stage in April - May tends to result in less pneumonia during the following winter housed period. Our vet (get well soon if you're reading this) once told me that IBR vaccine was a waste of time and money. The one time I used it, it sure AF did nothing to prove him wrong.
 
if i put them in the house how will i spot the ones that need a dose before the damage is done? , if they,re not thriving its weight gain lost and damage done to the lungs . i,d say its hard to get money to conduct trials and experiments for this type of work as the pharma business definitely don,t want the less is more side of the argument to win out .
whats your opinion on vaccinating then brucey , surely the same argument could be said about letting herds build up natural immunity to IBR and lots of other diseases which multiply every year, cows will be like pin cushions soon
 
Lungworm is the scariest parasite that you will be on the look out for. Irreparable damage can be done to animals in a very short space of time.

However, immunity to it works really well where animals can have a lifetime without needing treatment for it. Animals with good immunity will also put less eggs on Pasture which will lower the burden for other animals, you won't get this same effect if you dose when you don't need.

Diagnosis is key, the equipment best suited for diagnosing lungworm are your ears. All animals cough. Humans do it too. But what you are listening for is a deep cough coming from the bottom of the animals lungs and sounds as if the animals is bringing up something out of their lungs. If the animals haven't just been moved and you are hearing an increase in coughing then ask why. You will always hear a bit, but it shouldn't be affecting the behaviour of the animal eg. stopping grazing to cough. When you do decide it's lungworm, then dose, don't wait.

Picking the drug then is the next step. You basically have a choice of 3. Yellow (Levasamole) White (Benzimidazole) and clear (Macrocylic Lactones). These have loads of derivatives, but that's the basics. The narrowist spectrum (covers the least non-targeted parasites) is the best option which is why I'd be reaching for the yellow. You are best also to rotate the drugs to avoid resistance. Yellows not allowed in dairy animals going to calve within a number of months of using the drug so its advisable to reach for it first as calves creating less resistance in the other 2 products.

I do understand the concerns about risks, but get an animals own immune system to do the job and you'll have less parasites on your pasture and this will lower your risks.

We really have to think about what life will be like when these products become ineffective. It is coming so don't wait until the day the products don't work and you have a build up of parasites on your fields.
 
Lungworm is the scariest parasite that you will be on the look out for. Irreparable damage can be done to animals in a very short space of time.

However, immunity to it works really well where animals can have a lifetime without needing treatment for it. Animals with good immunity will also put less eggs on Pasture which will lower the burden for other animals, you won't get this same effect if you dose when you don't need.

Diagnosis is key, the equipment best suited for diagnosing lungworm are your ears. All animals cough. Humans do it too. But what you are listening for is a deep cough coming from the bottom of the animals lungs and sounds as if the animals is bringing up something out of their lungs. If the animals haven't just been moved and you are hearing an increase in coughing then ask why. You will always hear a bit, but it shouldn't be affecting the behaviour of the animal eg. stopping grazing to cough. When you do decide it's lungworm, then dose, don't wait.

Picking the drug then is the next step. You basically have a choice of 3. Yellow (Levasamole) White (Benzimidazole) and clear (Macrocylic Lactones). These have loads of derivatives, but that's the basics. The narrowist spectrum (covers the least non-targeted parasites) is the best option which is why I'd be reaching for the yellow. You are best also to rotate the drugs to avoid resistance. Yellows not allowed in dairy animals going to calve within a number of months of using the drug so its advisable to reach for it first as calves creating less resistance in the other 2 products.

I do understand the concerns about risks, but get an animals own immune system to do the job and you'll have less parasites on your pasture and this will lower your risks.

We really have to think about what life will be like when these products become ineffective. It is coming so don't wait until the day the products don't work and you have a build up of parasites on your fields.
A few years ago huskvac had problems with supply so I started using cydectin pour on timed during the summer,I’ve never gone back to huskvac as cydectin has worked fine for us.
 
Lungworm is the scariest parasite that you will be on the look out for. Irreparable damage can be done to animals in a very short space of time.

However, immunity to it works really well where animals can have a lifetime without needing treatment for it. Animals with good immunity will also put less eggs on Pasture which will lower the burden for other animals, you won't get this same effect if you dose when you don't need.

Diagnosis is key, the equipment best suited for diagnosing lungworm are your ears. All animals cough. Humans do it too. But what you are listening for is a deep cough coming from the bottom of the animals lungs and sounds as if the animals is bringing up something out of their lungs. If the animals haven't just been moved and you are hearing an increase in coughing then ask why. You will always hear a bit, but it shouldn't be affecting the behaviour of the animal eg. stopping grazing to cough. When you do decide it's lungworm, then dose, don't wait.

Picking the drug then is the next step. You basically have a choice of 3. Yellow (Levasamole) White (Benzimidazole) and clear (Macrocylic Lactones). These have loads of derivatives, but that's the basics. The narrowist spectrum (covers the least non-targeted parasites) is the best option which is why I'd be reaching for the yellow. You are best also to rotate the drugs to avoid resistance. Yellows not allowed in dairy animals going to calve within a number of months of using the drug so its advisable to reach for it first as calves creating less resistance in the other 2 products.

I do understand the concerns about risks, but get an animals own immune system to do the job and you'll have less parasites on your pasture and this will lower your risks.

We really have to think about what life will be like when these products become ineffective. It is coming so don't wait until the day the products don't work and you have a build up of parasites on your fields.
the trouble is most weanlings will probably be on an outfarm or at least a shed that won,t be passed 20 times a day to catch the one with lungworms quickly , they,ll probably be seen when feding once a day and thats it whereas dairy cows will be seen many times every day .
its an interesting topic and as you say it,ll become more problematic as we go through the years but i,d say the type of land you farm has a role too, we,re on dry land thats rotated and reseeded regularily and never dose a cow or any animal after its first year but if i was on heavy ground with a lot of old grass or wet patches i,d doubt anyone would be able to get away as lightly
 
the trouble is most weanlings will probably be on an outfarm or at least a shed that won,t be passed 20 times a day to catch the one with lungworms quickly , they,ll probably be seen when feding once a day and thats it whereas dairy cows will be seen many times every day .
its an interesting topic and as you say it,ll become more problematic as we go through the years but i,d say the type of land you farm has a role too, we,re on dry land thats rotated and reseeded regularily and never dose a cow or any animal after its first year but if i was on heavy ground with a lot of old grass or wet patches i,d doubt anyone would be able to get away as lightly

Once a day herding should be enough to catch lungworm, and if its cropping up in cows, there's something seriously wrong.

I have seen in Australia where Anthelmintic resistance has left land unsuitable for grazing. That is going to happen here also, we will have farms where there are resistant parasites. Resistance has been identified to our 3 main drug groups here in Ireland. For every time that we use a wormer, we are taking away a time in future where we would want that product to cure a diseased animal.

We really have to cut back on our usage and reliance on wormers. We have settled with the standard that animals have to be dosed. These wormers were not there before the 1930's, and animals lived.
 
Once a day herding should be enough to catch lungworm, and if its cropping up in cows, there's something seriously wrong.

I have seen in Australia where Anthelmintic resistance has left land unsuitable for grazing. That is going to happen here also, we will have farms where there are resistant parasites. Resistance has been identified to our 3 main drug groups here in Ireland. For every time that we use a wormer, we are taking away a time in future where we would want that product to cure a diseased animal.

We really have to cut back on our usage and reliance on wormers. We have settled with the standard that animals have to be dosed. These wormers were not there before the 1930's, and animals lived.
Bluestone , brucey
 
What are lads using for lice this winter? Has there ever really been a replacement for Taktic?
Used use Ectospec and Spotinor and got poor results, Used Butox last January when the others had failed and it did the job, treated cattle with Butox yesterday before housing and there was a good deal of scratching immediately after they went in, not a sign of one at it today.
 
Used use Ectospec and Spotinor and got poor results, Used Butox last January when the others had failed and it did the job, treated cattle with Butox yesterday before housing and there was a good deal of scratching immediately after they went in, not a sign of one at it today.
Another vote for botox here. Have had good results with it too
 
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