Will there be a grant system after TAMS II

Will I Am

Well-Known Member
As others have said get a qualification or trade of some type. Get an off farm job and save a bit for a couple of years. Go see the world and enjoy yourself. I regret not having done more of it in my twenties when I had the opportunity. It gets more difficult as you get older due to ties and commitments and of course you like to go for the more luxurious options so takes a bit more saving.
 

deere6320

Well-Known Member
With the numbers and acreage you have suggested, I wonder how viable it will be?

You're talking about a substantial capital investment and you're tied to it.
We farm similar acres, drystock, buy and sell bullocks mind you, and I'd never dream of being at it full time.

If you were to work outside, maybe go the contract rearing route, you wouldn't need the big investment costs with setting up for milking. There are people on this forum contract rearing on acres similar to what you have suggested. You have a regular steady Income without having to invest. You have the farm as a sideline without being tied to it, and it leaves you with more options.

When I was 16 I hadn't planned doing what I did (I'm 23 now), I wasnt even going to study the same thing in college that time.

Once you take the plunge into dairying and borrow money, you have to stick with it. With the dry stock you can change course if the wind takes you that way.
Do you think it would make a big difference if I told you I’m almost certain that a farm almost identical to ours will come up adjoining our land for long term lease in about 5 years ,the farmer let it for 7 years in 2019 and they have sheds ,slurry storage and silage pits, but that land would need 70 acres reseeded and roadways and water, plus the cost of 200 an acre, it might be my only shot at going at a somewhat large scale,it’s not ideal and I would have preferred to stay small and work alone but if that opportunity comes and goes, I’ll definitely be kicking myself
 

Cork

Well-Known Member
Do you think it would make a big difference if I told you I’m almost certain that a farm almost identical to ours will come up adjoining our land for long term lease in about 5 years ,the farmer let it for 7 years in 2019 and they have sheds ,slurry storage and silage pits, but that land would need 70 acres reseeded and roadways and water, plus the cost of 200 an acre, it might be my only shot at going at a somewhat large scale,it’s not ideal and I would have preferred to stay small and work alone but if that opportunity comes and goes, I’ll definitely be kicking myself
But what would you do if you set up on the basis of using that land and the owner decided to do something else after 7 years?
You could be high & dry.
 

nashmach

Well-Known Member
But what would you do if you set up on the basis of using that land and the owner decided to do something else after 7 years?
You could be high & dry.

And who is to say that you will even get that land in 2026 when it comes up? The owner might just let it roll or it might go to silly non sensical money and you might be better off without that noose around your neck.

A smaller farm with things done well can often be just as profitable as a bigger one with things done half right and a lot less headaches.
 

lough

Well-Known Member
And who is to say that you will even get that land in 2026 when it comes up? The owner might just let it roll or it might go to silly non sensical money and you might be better off without that noose around your neck.

A smaller farm with things done well can often be just as profitable as a bigger one with things done half right and a lot less headaches.
I remember Gerald Potterton writing in the IFJ a good few years ago about a neighbouring farmer that was Dutch, he said his farm was small or average size but what he had he farmed it to the max and was doing as well if not better than those on bigger acreages. It always stuck in the back of my mind and is the system I would like here someday, I'm not interested in chasing acres or head of cattle. Head of cattle per acre and doing it well.
 
With the numbers and acreage you have suggested, I wonder how viable it will be?

You're talking about a substantial capital investment and you're tied to it.
We farm similar acres, drystock, buy and sell bullocks mind you, and I'd never dream of being at it full time.

If you were to work outside, maybe go the contract rearing route, you wouldn't need the big investment costs with setting up for milking. There are people on this forum contract rearing on acres similar to what you have suggested. You have a regular steady Income without having to invest. You have the farm as a sideline without being tied to it, and it leaves you with more options.

When I was 16 I hadn't planned doing what I did (I'm 23 now), I wasnt even going to study the same thing in college that time.

Once you take the plunge into dairying and borrow money, you have to stick with it. With the dry stock you can change course if the wind takes you that way.
I have to agree with Kieran on this one... funny enough we ended up doing similar courses and working for the same company but anyway I wouldn’t put all my eggs in one basket try and find a course u are interested in get and get a degree if u can... the way I see it is I’d love to farm full time and might in the future but I’ll always have my degree and experience to fall back on if farming isn’t viable.. if u can manage to work part time/full time and run a farm part time it would give u a lot of financial benefits to enjoy an easier life.... For all we know with new environmental laws that come into force intensive farming might be a none runner in Ireland... I just think putting urself under that much financial pressure at 20/22 is putting a lot of pressure and stress on urself that would leave u stuck in a rut if the milk price dropped...
 

Cork

Well-Known Member
I have to agree with Kieran on this one... funny enough we ended up doing similar courses and working for the same company but anyway I wouldn’t put all my eggs in one basket try and find a course u are interested in get and get a degree if u can... the way I see it is I’d love to farm full time and might in the future but I’ll always have my degree and experience to fall back on if farming isn’t viable.. if u can manage to work part time/full time and run a farm part time it would give u a lot of financial benefits to enjoy an easier life.... For all we know with new environmental laws that come into force intensive farming might be a none runner in Ireland... I just think putting urself under that much financial pressure at 20/22 is putting a lot of pressure and stress on urself that would leave u stuck in a rut if the milk price dropped...
Spot on
 

Seedsower

Well-Known Member
Starting from scratch would involve high borrowing, which the. Banks may not facilitate to someone with no history.
Taking on more land that requires investment shortly after is more pressure again. No one has a crystal ball but environmental pressure will likely affect profitability somwhat and will probably keep land rent prices up,especially in any area with a number of dairy farmers ,which is most parishes now I think.
As already said the land will always be there but your youth won't be
 

Ugo Schtiglitz

Well-Known Member
I admire the certainty of youth, but life has a habit of getting complicated. I would echo all the sense above. If dairy farming is what you want and will make you happy, (you seem to have the grit and determination), go learn everything you can about it, college (preferably a primary degree), travel and build every scrap of knowledge you can. By the time you get out, all the auld lads on here will be bet and looking for someone to farm it for them. I think there will be great opportunities for young farmers in coming years. The demographics don't lie. There will be access to land and funding again, so I wouldn't let that cloud your judgement.
 

Cork

Well-Known Member
I admire the certainty of youth, but life has a habit of getting complicated. I would echo all the sense above. If dairy farming is what you want and will make you happy, (you seem to have the grit and determination), go learn everything you can about it, college (preferably a primary degree), travel and build every scrap of knowledge you can. By the time you get out, all the auld lads on here will be bet and looking for someone to farm it for them. I think there will be great opportunities for young farmers in coming years. The demographics don't lie. There will be access to land and funding again, so I wouldn't let that cloud your judgement.
I intend living forever
 

Nashty

Well-Known Member
If you really think dairy farming is for you then go study hard in school and try get into the dairy business degree at UCD or if the points are too high, try get into the Ag course in Waterford IT. That way you will have a solid degree under your belt, and also, your Green Cert completed all in one go. The added benefits are that you are young and get to experience a college lifestyle and live a little. When you have that done, if you want to go farming, then you can go and do that or you can get a job in the ag food industry for a while if that suits better (loads of opportunities). Question no one has asked in all of this is where do your parents fit in? How do they feel about what you are proposing to do? Are they financially dependent on the farm also? You sound like you have great determination to succeed and that is a most important quality in a young farmer. Best of luck.
 

horsebox44

Well-Known Member
Go to college and find an only daughter with a heap of land and it will all work out 🤠🤠
I was once advised by a wise and noble man ...."Never marry for money or land, tis easier borrow it in the long term" i didn't question him any more but he seemed to have first hand experience of it!

I’m taking it with me.

There'll be some amount of f4f members sharpening up the shovels behind the graveyard yard wall at your burial😉...
 

13spanner

Well-Known Member
I was once advised by a wise and noble man ...."Never marry for money or land, tis easier borrow it in the long term" i didn't question him any more but he seemed to have first hand experience of it!



There'll be some amount of f4f members sharpening up the shovels behind the graveyard yard wall at your burial😉...
I’ll be cremated and spread on the pasture field to help the PH.
 

horsebox44

Well-Known Member
I’ll be cremated and spread on the pasture field to help the PH.

Eamon Ryan won't be happy to hear that... more greenhouse gas emissions been released up to the atmosphere.
At least if we buried ya minus all the gold and silver, you'd feed a family of earthworms for a good number of months increasing the OM in the soil.... You'd be nearly as good as chopping the straw without the grant aid🤔.
 

ponderosa

Well-Known Member
i know someone in particular here, a very good dairy operator near retirement. started farming in his teens, all he wanted to do at the time was farm. and to this day his biggest regret is not seeing other sides of life when he had a chance.

Once you take that first big loan out, its going to be a very long road from 16
I don’t know,I’m probably overthinking it ,but thanks for the advice lads
 

deere6320

Well-Known Member
If you really think dairy farming is for you then go study hard in school and try get into the dairy business degree at UCD or if the points are too high, try get into the Ag course in Waterford IT. That way you will have a solid degree under your belt, and also, your Green Cert completed all in one go. The added benefits are that you are young and get to experience a college lifestyle and live a little. When you have that done, if you want to go farming, then you can go and do that or you can get a job in the ag food industry for a while if that suits better (loads of opportunities). Question no one has asked in all of this is where do your parents fit in? How do they feel about what you are proposing to do? Are they financially dependent on the farm also? You sound like you have great determination to succeed and that is a most important quality in a young farmer. Best of luck.
My family basically have the same opinion as you and most of ye,which is disappointing because I really wanted this, but I guess ye are all right ,thanks for being honest with me anyways
 

Masseyrk662

Well-Known Member
My family basically have the same opinion as you and most of ye,which is disappointing because I really wanted this, but I guess ye are all right ,thanks for being honest with me anyways
I wouldn’t worry about it one bit at the minute. You are only 16, when I was 16 I thought the same as you, I was in TY going around with a new 10 foot krone mower and I thought it was the absolute best thing ever, I didn’t want to even go back to school after the summer I said this is it this is what I’m going to stay at. My parents were completely against it, the father had lost most interest in hire work as he was burned out from it over the years so there was no way I was going to be let at it without having a backup, so I stayed through school and went and done a level 8 and it was the best thing I ever done. If you find a course you like it will fly and the craic you will have is something unreal. When I finished the level 8 I had to decide then again what to do and after seeing the hardship after a few years and when all my friends were going off abroad and to music festivals during summer and I was lieing underneath a baler covered in burned oil and dust listening to some lad telling me the bales weren’t chopped enough last year I thought Jesus maybe I should have another plan incase so I went and done a masters in the thing I didn’t like originally which was educator and am now a teacher. Now I’m not teaching I am home getting covered in sh1te still because for some unknown ungodly reason I actually really like it. But if things start going bad or I have a midlife crises or bad health, or all our customers get someone else or god forbid god knows what I can get a full time job out of the level 8 or I can always keep at the silage and tillage because I’d have the summers off teaching 🤷🏻‍♂️ That’s just my own expeirence on it now but whatever you are thinking now keep up the plan if you think you really want to, but there is definitely no need to jump straight into it
 

Nashty

Well-Known Member
My family basically have the same opinion as you and most of ye,which is disappointing because I really wanted this, but I guess ye are all right ,thanks for being honest with me anyways
If you are really not into acamdemics, then try and at least go and do a Green Cert in an Ag College for a year and make sure you do your placement on a dairy farm, that way you will get a good dose of dairy experience on top of what you already have and in the process, you will have the Green Cert done which will be of benefit in any future grant schemes.
 

Cork

Well-Known Member
If you’re not big into studying (few are), I wouldn’t dismiss the idea of getting a trade.

A nice trade like an electrician, carpenter, metal working. Skilled trades are in demand and it shows no signs of changing.
It could go with some farming on the side.
 
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